Tag: minor league deal

Former Red Sox catcher Jhonny Pereda signs minor-league deal with Giants

Former Red Sox catcher Jhonny Pereda has signed a minor-league deal with the Giants, per MLB.com.

Pereda, 25, was originally acquired by the Sox last March as the player to be named later in the trade that sent right-hander Travis Lakins to the Cubs last January.

After getting released and re-upping with Boston on a two-year minors pact last July, Pereda spent the entirety of the compressed 2020 season at the club’s alternate training site in Pawtucket.

This past season, the Venezuelan backstop began the year with Double-A Portland before earning a midsummer promotion to Triple-A Worcester in late July.

Between the two affiliates, the right-handed hitting Pereda batted .246/.343/.325 with 14 doubles, one triple, 20 RBIs, 22 runs scored, one stolen base, 31 walks, and 27 strikeouts across 64 games (237 plate appearances) in 2021. He also threw out 13 of the 42 (31%) base runners who attempted to steal against him.

Originally signed by the Cubs as an international free agent in 2013, Pereda has spent the last two off-seasons playing for Leones del Caracas of the Venezuelan Winter League. After taking home Rookie of the Year honors last year, the 6-foot-1, 202 pounder came into play Saturday boasting a .793 OPS in 22 games (82 plate appearances) for Caracas.

While Pereda does have some intriguing qualities, such as the ability to play first base, the Red Sox must have felt comfortable letting him walk away in free agency considering how deep they are at catcher currently.

With Christian Vazquez and Kevin Plawecki in line to once again be Boston’s top two catchers entering 2022, the Sox also have catching prospects Connor Wong and Ronaldo Hernandez on their 40-man roster.

Behind those four, Kole Cottam, Elih Marrero, Jaxx Groshans, and 2021 fifth-round draft selection Nathan Hickey are among the other well-known catching prospects within the organization.

(Picture of Jhonny Pereda: Katie Morrison/MassLive)

How Red Sox’ Zack Kelly went from undrafted out of college to cusp of big leagues

Zack Kelly may be on the verge of the major leagues, but he has never considered himself a highly-touted prospect.

Undrafted out of Division II Newberry College (Newberry, S.C.), Kelly signed with the Oakland Athletics for just $500 in 2017. His first assignment as a pro was in the rookie-level Arizona League.

“The A’s, they provided us with apartments in Arizona for the AZL, and [rent] was $300 a month,” Kelly recently recalled. “And so, the day we got our signing bonuses was also the first day we had to pay rent. So, I got my check and after taxes it was $323. I walk out of the building and I see on the big whiteboard: ‘RENT IS DUE TOMORROW: $300.’ So, I had to go cash my check, put away $300 for rent, then I had $23. And I kid you not, I took it to Applebee’s and I got a 2 for $20 for myself. So, I essentially signed for a plane ticket and an Applebee’s 2 for $20.”

From the beginning, Kelly’s journey through the minors has been riddled with hurdles, and he was still presented with challenges even after graduating from rookie ball.

After reaching the Double-A level with the Angels organization in 2019, Kelly tore the ulnar collateral ligament (UCL) in his throwing elbow the following spring.

While he was ultimately able to avoid Tommy John surgery, the timing of Kelly’s injury was still far from ideal. Around the same time he was rehabbing, the COVID-19 pandemic was ravaging the United States. Citing financial losses caused by the pandemic, MLB teams began releasing minor-league players en masse.

Kelly was one of those casualties, as he was officially released by the Angels on May 29 — shortly after he told the team he was going to require some form of surgery in order to pitch pain-free moving forward.

“Getting surgery at my age was not something I thought was beneficial to me,” Kelly said. “Towards the end of May, when I realized that I wasn’t going to be able to get back to 100% without pain, I told them. And I was talking about bad timing, because I got released right after that. But I understood. Everybody had to make cuts for the most part. At that time, I thought I was going to have to get full-blown Tommy John surgery, … which wouldn’t have benefited them.

“So, I don’t blame them,” he added. “But, luckily for me, I didn’t have to get the full-blown elbow reconstruction and I was able to play this year. I was able to sign with Boston and be in a really good organization that I like and think has a bright future. It paid off.”

Kelly signed his first minor-league contract with the Red Sox last December. The right-handed reliever began the 2021 minor-league season at Double-A Portland, but earned his first promotion to Triple-A Worcester in late July. Between the two levels, he posted an impressive 2.18 ERA over 36 appearances spanning 45 1/3 innings of work.

Shortly before the conclusion of the Triple-A season, Kelly expressed interest in remaining with the Red Sox on another minor-league pact for the 2022 campaign. It did not take long for the two sides to reach an agreement.

“Probably two or three days after the season ended, we were already in talks, which is a little bit sooner than I thought it was going to be,” recalled Kelly. “A lot of it was done through my agent. Eventually, we came to an agreement. It was a no-brainer. So, I’m happy to be back.”

One thing in particular that Kelly enjoyed about his first year in the Red Sox organization was the way the team’s coaches communicate with one another — even at different minor-league levels. Take Sea Dogs pitching coach Lance Carter and WooSox pitching coach Paul Abbott, for instance.

“I like this organization because the coaches talk,” Kelly explained. “From the stuff me and Lance were working on in Portland, the day I got to Worcester with [Abbott], he brought that up and we were able to keep the same thing going. The other places I’ve been at, going from level to level, that hasn’t happened. It seems to be like that from the top down. Just talking to different people, kind of picking other guys’ brains, that was something that I was really happy to see. It makes the promotion that much easier.”

While still under contract for the 2022 season, Kelly’s status with the Red Sox is technically up in the air. Last month, Boston had the opportunity to add the 26-year-old to their 40-man roster but elected not to.

That decision has left Kelly eligible for the Rule 5 Draft, which usually takes place during the last day of the Winter Meetings but has since been postponed indefinitely due to Major League Baseball’s work stoppage.

“I thought I might have a chance to get added, but ultimately I didn’t, which I’m fine with,” said Kelly. “I trust Chaim [Bloom]. He’s proven himself over and over throughout the years and he knows what his plan is for this off-season.”

Assuming the major-league phase of the Rule 5 Draft takes place sometime between now and the start of the 2022 season, Kelly says he is not sure what to expect, but is eager to contribute at the big-league level if that’s a possibility.

“I think regardless of what happens, the preparation doesn’t change as far as what I’m doing,” he said. “But, obviously, the goal is to be in the big-leagues. And to come up and help a big-league club, I would be all over that opportunity. But, I think whatever happens is a win-win situation for me. If I were to get selected, I would hopefully stay in the big-leagues all year. If not, I’m in a really good place with Boston where I’m completely happy being.”

In the interim, Kelly — who turns 27 in March — does have a major-league invite to Red Sox spring training to look forward to next year. If he remains with Boston through the winter, it will mark his first time attending a big-league camp.

“My goals are the same as they have been,” said Kelly. “It’s to make quality pitches, continue to pitch to my philosophies, ultimately make it to the big leagues, help the team win, and hopefully win a World Series.”

(Picture of Zack Kelly: Katie Morrison/MassLive)

Former Red Sox left-hander Stephen Gonsalves signs minor-league deal with Cubs

The Cubs have signed former Red Sox left-hander Stephen Gonsalves to a minor-league contract for the 2022 season, per MLB.com. It’s unclear if the deal includes an invite to major-league spring training.

Gonsalves, 27, had spent the last two seasons in the Red Sox organization after originally being claimed off waivers from the Mets last July.

After spending the summer at the Sox’ alternate training site, Gonsalves re-upped with the club on another minor-league pact over the winter and opened the 2021 campaign at Triple-A Worcester.

In 22 appearances (10 starts) for the WooSox, the lanky lefty posted a 4.68 ERA and 4.70 xFIP to go along with 103 walks to 52 strikeouts over 73 innings of work.

When the Red Sox were navigating through a COVID-19 outbreak at the major-league level beginning in late August, Gonsalves had his contract selected from Triple-A on Aug. 31.

The California native appeared in three games for Boston, allowing two earned runs on two hits, two walks, and four punchouts across 4 1/3 innings pitched. That’s good for an ERA of 4.15.

Shortly after getting called up, Gonsalves was returned to Worcester on September 13 and closed out the year with the WooSox. He officially become a minor-league free agent in early November.

A former fourth-round draft pick and top prospect of the Twins, Gonsalves certainly is intriguing. The 6-foot-5, 218 pound southpaw operates with a four-pitch mix that consists of a four-seam fastball, curveball, slider, and changeup.

Not to set to turn 28 until next July, Gonsalves is now on his fourth team (Twins, Mets, Red Sox, Cubs) since being drafted by Minnesota in 2013. He has logged 685 career innings in the minors.

(Picture of Stephen Gonsalves: Richard T. Gagnon/Getty Images)

Red Sox re-sign right-handed reliever Michael Feliz to minor-league deal for 2022 season, per report

The Red Sox have re-signed right-handed reliever Michael Feliz to a minor-league contract for the 2022 season, according to The Boston Globe’s Alex Speier. The deal includes an invite to major-league spring training.

Feliz, 28, spent the 2021 season with four different organizations. He began the year with the Pirates, was designated for assignment and claimed off waivers by the Reds in May, was released by Cincinnati in late August, and signed a minors pact with Boston shortly thereafter.

After initially being assigned to Triple-A Worcester out of the gate, Feliz had his contract selected by the Red Sox on September 6 while the club was navigating its way through a COVID-19 outbreak.

In four relief appearances for Boston, the Dominican-born righty posted a 3.38 ERA and 6.73 FIP to go along with five strikeouts to one walk over 5 1/3 innings of work before being designated for assignment on Sept. 17.

Three days later, Feliz was claimed off waivers by the Athletics, but Oakland let him go after he made just one appearance with the club.

Per Baseball Savant, the 6-foot-4, 250 pound hurler operates with a three-pitch mix that consists of a four-seam fastball that averaged 93.8 mph this year, a slider that opponents only hit .182 off of this year, and a changeup.

Feliz, who does not turn 29 until next June, is represented by Rep 1 Baseball, the same agency that represents Red Sox third baseman Rafael Devers.

The hard-throwing right-hander becomes the third minor-league signing the Red Sox have made in the last two days, joining the likes of outfielders Christin Stewart and Rob Refsnyder. Boston has brought back right-handers Caleb Simpson, Zack Kelly and Michael Gettys on minor-league deals for the 2022 campaign as well.

(Picture of Michael Feliz: Adam Glanzman/Getty Images)

Red Sox non-tender Tim Locastro, but ‘are already trying to re-sign’ speedy outfielder, per report

The Red Sox may have non-tendered Tim Locastro on Tuesday night, but the club may already be looking into bringing the speedy outfielder back.

According to MassLive.com’s Chris Cotillo, the Sox are indeed trying to re-sign Locastro, who was projected by MLB Trade Rumors to earn approximately $700,000 in his first year of arbitration eligibility in 2022.

Locastro, 29, was originally claimed off waivers from the Yankees on November 5 and was subsequently added to Boston’s 40-man roster. He spent the 2021 season with the Diamondbacks and Yankees, slashing .180/.263/.252 with four doubles, two home runs, seven RBIs, 15 runs scored, five stolen bases, seven walks, and 33 strikeouts over 64 games (156 plate appearances) between both clubs.

Upon getting traded from Arizona to New York on July 1, Locastro suffered a season-ending injury very early into his Yankees career, as he tore his right ACL in a game against the Red Sox in the Bronx on July 17.

After undergoing season-ending knee surgery on July 21, Locastro later lost his spot on the Yankees’ 40-man roster, thus allowing the Red Sox to claim him in the first place.

As of early November, the right-handed hitting speedster had began running again and was making significant progress in his rehab.

“Tim’s on track for a full recovery from his injury,” Red Sox chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom said in a recent conversation with BloggingtheRedSox.com. “With his speed and athleticism, he’s great depth for us to add at the beginning of the off-season.”

At that time, Bloom also said, “We’ll see how things play out from here.” Less than a full month later, it turns out Boston has removed Locastro from their 40-man roster.

While coming off a tough injury such as an ACL tear, Locastro had previously established himself as one of the quickest base runners in the majors. Per Baseball Savant, the 6-foot-1, 190 pounder led the league in sprint speed in 2019 (30.8 feet per second) and 2020 (30.7 feet per second) and was tied with Trea Turner atop the leaderboard in 2021 (30.7 feet per second).

Taking his elite speed and the fact that he plays all three outfield positions into consideration, there is an appeal to Locastro’s game. The former 13th-round draft pick out of Ithaca College does not turn 30 until next July, has one minor-league option year remaining, and is also under club control through 2024.

With that being said, Cotillo notes that in their efforts to retain Locastro, the Red Sox could get the New York native to sign a minor-league deal for the 2022 season that would include an invite to major-league spring training.

Boston has, after all, been active in minor-league free agency as of late. On Tuesday, the club reportedly inked outfielders Rob Refsnyder and Christin Stewart to minor-league contracts for the 2022 campaign.

Adding Locastro via another minors pact would only further strengthen the Sox’ outfield depth behind the likes of Alex Verdugo, Enrique Hernandez, Hunter Renfroe, and Jarren Duran.

On another note, it is worth mentioning that Locastro was one of 41 players to not be tendered a contract by their respective teams on Tuesday. It’s likely that the Red Sox will be involved in talks with those who have recently been made free agents before the impending work stoppage begins on Wednesday night.

(Picture of Tim Locastro: Steven Ryan/Getty Images)

Red Sox sign outfielder Christin Stewart to minor-league deal for 2022 season, per report

The Red Sox have signed outfielder Christin Stewart to a minor-league contract for the 2022 season, according to WEEI’s Rob Bradford. The deal includes an invite to major-league spring training.

Stewart, who turns 28 on December 10, was originally selected by the Tigers in the first round of the 2015 amateur draft out of the University of Tennessee. He made his big-league debut in September 2018 and spent parts of three major-league seasons with Detroit (2018-2020) before becoming a free agent earlier this month.

Across 157 games with the Tigers, Stewart slashed .225/.300/.376 with 29 doubles, two triples, 15 home runs, 59 RBIs, 45 runs scored, 49 walks, and 146 strikeouts over 587 cumulative plate appearances.

Leading up to the 2021 season, Stewart was designated for assignment by Detroit in early April and was subsequently outrighted to the club’s alternate training site/Triple-A affiliate shortly thereafter.

With Triple-A Toledo this year, the left-handed hitter batted .254/.339/.538 (127 wRC+) to go along with 13 doubles, five triples, 21 homers, 58 RBIs, 51 runs scored, two stolen bases, 33 walks, and 100 strikeouts over 89 games spanning 343 trips to the plate.

A native of Atlanta, Stewart has only played left field at the major-league level, but he did see a significant amount of his playing time with Toledo come in right field this year.

Listed at 6-foot and 220 pounds, Stewart is represented by the Boras Corporation. He has three minor-league options remaining and could remain under club control through the end of the 2025 campaign.

By inking Stewart to a minor-league pact for the 2022 season, the Red Sox have continued to add to their upper-minors outfield depth at Triple-A Worcester after signing fellow outfielder Rob Refsnyder on Tuesday as well.

(Picture of Christin Stewart: Stacy Revere/Getty Images)

Red Sox sign outfielder Rob Refsnyder to minor-league deal for 2022 season, per report

The Red Sox have signed free-agent outfielder Rob Refsnyder to a minor-league contract for the 2022 season, according to MassLive.com’s Chris Cotillo. The deal includes an invite to major-league spring training.

Refsnyder, 30, spent the 2021 season with the Twins after signing a minor-league pact with Minnesota last November. In 51 games, he slashed .245/.325/.338 with seven doubles, two home runs, 12 RBIs, 21 runs scored, one stolen base, 17 walks, and 40 strikeouts over 157 trips to the plate while making appearances at all three outfield positions.

Born in Seoul, South Korea, Refsnyder was originally selected by the Yankees in the fifth round of the 2012 amateur draft out of the University of Arizona. The right-handed hitter was regarded as one of the top prospects in New York’s farm system before making his big-league debut against the Red Sox in July 2015.

Since that time, Refsnyder has bounced around a bit, as he was traded by the Yankees to the Blue Jays in July 2017 and was claimed off waivers by the Guardians that November.

The Rays purchased Refsnyder’s contract from Cleveland ahead of Opening Day in 2018, so it’s safe to assume there is some there is at least some history between him and Red Sox chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom.

After appearing in 40 games in Tampa Bay throughout the 2018 campaign, Refsnyder inked a minor-league pact with the Diamondbacks that November before being dealt to the Reds the following spring.

While Refsnyder did not appear in a game for Cincinnati in 2019, he did make his way back to the majors with the Rangers during the compressed 2020 season.

All in all, Refsnyder has appeared in 232 total big-league contests between the Yankees, Blue Jays, Rays, Rangers, and Twins dating back to 2015. And he has done so while seeing playing time at every defensive position besides catcher and shortstop.

Listed at 6-foot, 205 pounds, Refsnyder — who turns 31 in March — is represented by PSI Sports Management. He is out of minor-league options, but is technically under club control through 2024.

In adding Refsnyder via a minor-league contract, the Red Sox add a somewhat versatile player who will mainly provide outfield depth while also having a chance to make an impact at Triple-A Worcester next year.

Per Cotillo, Refsnyder is the fourth known minor-league signing Boston has made since the start of the off-season. Right-handers Caleb Simpson, Zack Kelly and Michael Gettys all re-signed with the club earlier this fall.

(Picture of Rob Refsnyder: Brace Hemmelgarn/Minnesota Twins/Getty Images)

New Podding the Red Sox episode: Red Sox reliever Zack Kelly joins the show

On this week’s installment of Podding the Red Sox: A BloggingtheRedSox.com Podcast, I am joined by Red Sox minor-league reliever Zack Kelly.

Kelly, 26, spent the 2021 season between Double-A Portland and Triple-A Worcester. The right-hander posted a 2.18 ERA and strikeout-to-walk ratio of 69:18 over 36 relief appearances (45 1/3 innings pitched) across both levels. He re-signed with Boston on another minor-league contract for 2022 in October and has received an invite to major-league spring training.

Among the topics Zack and I discussed in this week’s episode are how he initially drew interest from the Red Sox last year, the differences between pitching at Double-A and Triple-A, the congruency within the Red Sox organization, how he made made his way as an undrafted free agent who signed with the Athletics out of a Division II school for $500, undergoing and recovering from elbow surgery, getting cut loose by the Angels during the pandemic, getting interviewed by the New York Times, his upcoming Rule 5 candidacy, his expectations for the 2022 season, and much more!

The episode is available to listen to on iTunes and Spotify, among other platforms.

Thank you to Zack for taking some time out of his offseason schedule to have a conversation with yours truly. You can follow Zack on Twitter (@Zack_Kelly) by clicking here and on Instagram (@Zack_Kelly19) by clicking here.

Thank you for listening and we will see you next time! Please make sure to subscribe and leave a five-star review if you can!

(Picture of Zack Kelly: Katie Morrison/MassLive)

Red Sox re-sign Michael Gettys, Zack Kelly, and Caleb Simpson to minor-league deals, per report

The Red Sox have re-signed a trio of minor-league free agents who spent the 2021 season in the organization, according to MassLive.com’s Chris Cotillo.

Per Cotillo, the Sox have brought back right-handers Michael Gettys, Zack Kelly, and Caleb Simpson on minor-league pacts for the 2022 campaign.

SoxProspects.com executive editor Chris Hatfield adds on to this, noting that both Kelly and Simpson re-signed with Boston before actually becoming free agents, while Gettys signed more recently.

Gettys, a former second-round draft pick of the Padres coming out of high school in 2014, originally joined the Red Sox last November and received an invite to major-league spring training.

An outfielder by trade, Gettys broke camp with Triple-A Worcester, where he slashed .201/.271/.349 with seven doubles, five home runs, 14 RBIs, 24 runs scored, seven stolen bases, 12 walks, and 60 strikeouts in 46 games (166 plate appearances) for the WooSox.

After spending time on the development list throughout the month of August, the 26-year-old was assigned to the Florida Complex League and began making the transition to become a pitcher full-time.

Gettys made his professional pitching debut in Fort Myers on Aug. 31 and proceeded to post a 3.60 ERA and 7.15 FIP to go along with five strikeouts to four walks over five relief appearances spanning exactly five innings of work.

As noted by Hatfield, the Red Sox retaining Gettys means the 6-foot-1, 217 pound hurler is able to stay with the same coaching staff he began the transition process with. On that note, SoxProspects.com projects that Gettys will begin the 2022 minor-league season in the bullpen for High-A Greenville.

Moving on to Simpson, he is someone who originally signed a minor-league deal with the Red Sox in July 2020, shortly before the start of the compressed 2020 season and shortly after getting released by the Cubs.

A former 21st-round selection of the Giants in 2013 amateur draft out Seminole State College (Seminole, Okla.), Simpson spent all of last summer at the Sox’ alternate training site in Pawtucket and was assigned to Worcester coming out of spring training this year.

In 13 relief appearances for the WooSox, the hard-throwing righty pitched to the tune of a 3.86 ERA and 4.58 FIP while recording 21 strikeouts and eight walks across 14 innings pitched. His season ended prematurely when he was placed on the 60-day injured list at the end of July.

Kelly, meanwhile, is undoubtedly the most intriguing pitcher included in this round of transactions since he — like Simpson — can become eligible for this winter’s Rule 5 Draft.

The Red Sox signed Kelly, who turns 27 in March, to a minor-league contract this past January after he spent the previous four seasons in the Athletics, Angels, and Rays organizations.

Undrafted out of Newberry College, the Virginia native began the 2021 campaign at Double-A Portland before earning a mid-season promotion to Worcester in late July.

Out of the WooSox bullpen, Kelly put up a 2.89 ERA, 1.92 FIP, and 40:13 strikeout-to-walk ratio over 15 appearances spanning 18 2/3 innings of relief.

On Thursday, SoxProspects.com’s director of scouting Ian Cundall wrote that Kelly “has a very heavy fastball in the mid-90s and a pair of average-ish secondaries. His has shown the ability to limit hard contact and miss bats, but was also repeating Double-A at the start of the year.”

Because the Red Sox re-signed him earlier in the off-season, Cundall opines that Kelly could be added to the 40-man roster by Friday’s deadline since the club clearly values him to some degree.

Any eligible minor-leaguer who is not added to their respective team’s 40-man roster by Friday can subsequently be picked up by another club in the Rule 5 Draft, which typically takes place during the winter meetings in December.

(Picture of Zack Kelly: Katie Morrison/MassLive)

Red Sox sign former Reds right-hander José De León to minor-league deal

The Red Sox have signed right-hander Jose De Leon to a minor-league contract, De Leon himself announced on Twitter Thursday.

“Since ‘97, when I started playing baseball, I always dreamed about being a Red Sox,” De Leon wrote Thursday morning. “Today, the dream of that little kid from Isabela, Puerto Rico, becomes reality. So kids, never stop dreaming! We’re back #OnAMission.”

De Leon, who turns 29 on Saturday, was released by the Reds on July 23 after being designated for assignment on July 19.

Across nine appearances (two starts) with Cincinnati this season, the righty posted an 8.35 ERA and 4.53 FIP to go along with 33 strikeouts and 11 walks over 18 1/3 total innings pitched from April 5 through May 4.

Optioned to Triple-A Louisville on May 5, De Leon put up an ERA of 4.63 — but a much more respectable 3.02 FIP — in 12 outings spanning 11 2/3 innings of work with the Bats prior to getting DFA’d.

A native of Isabela, Puerto Rico, the 6-foot-2, 215 pound hurler was originally selected by the Dodgers in the 24th round of the 2013 amateur draft out of Southern University. He was traded to the Rays in January 2017 in exchange for Logan Forsythe, missed the entirety of the 2018 season after undergoing Tommy John surgery that March, and was later traded to the Reds in November 2019 in exchange for cash considerations and a player to be named later.

Once regarded as one of the top pitching prospects in baseball, De Leon made his major-league debut with the Dodgers in September 2016 and has appeared in a grand total of 22 games (six starts) at the big-league level between Los Angeles, Tampa Bay and Cincinnati.

In those 22 outings, De Leon has pitched to the tune of an 8.44 ERA and 5.98 FIP while striking out 27.7% and walking 14.5% of the batters he has faced. He also owns a lifetime 3.35 ERA at the Triple-A level.

Per Baseball Savant, De Leon operates with a three-pitch mix that consists of a sinker, changeup, and slider. He has also utilized a four-seam fastball in the past.

While it’s unclear at the moment which affiliate De Leon is report to (likely Triple-A Worcester), one thing is for certain: the right-hander does represent some intriguing pitching depth for a club that is seemingly in need of it at the moment.

On top of that, De Leon played alongside Red Sox outfielder Jarren Duran and for Red Sox quality control coach Ramon Vazquez for Criollos de Caguas (Alex Cora’s hometown team) of the Puerto Rican Winter League last winter, so there is certainly some familiarity there.